Difference Durgol swiss espresso - Durgol Express
Posted by: Holger K. March 03, 2007 02:06 pm
Hello folks,
since I had to decalcify my ESAM 4500 for the first time yesterday, I looked around for the decalcifier recommended by DeLonghi => Durgol
Now I wanted to ask you where the difference between Durgol swiss espresso and Durgol Express lies?
Both have 15% amidosulfonic acid as active ingredient and I don't see any other difference except the name and the price.
On eBay 2.0 liters of Durgol Express cost about 20€ incl. shipping and 20 x 125ml (2.5 Lieter) Durgol swiss espresso about 65€ incl. shipping.
>would I like your answers.
Posted by: edwi April 02, 2007 02:20 pm
Hello Holger,
before exactly the same question I stood today also with my new delonghi. I still had the "cheap" Durgol from the old machine and was surprised that the proportions were completely different now : earlier (at the siemens surpresso 20) one decalcified only with 500 ml liquid - half water, half Durgol.
Now 125 ml durgol should suffice (sample bottle Durgol espresso), diluted with 1 l water. So it was done.
For the first time, 1125 ml was too much liquid, in the tank remained about 200 ml.
With the collected "used" decalcifying liquid I decalcified as always, equal to my kettle. That worked, despite new "dilution" prima.
Therefore I wonder if the expensive Durgol is not more concentrated than the cheap? Where did you find the information that both contain 15%? I found this information only on the cheap Durgol bottle. I did not find any information about the concentration in the original sample, not even in the enclosed thick instruction booklet.
Posted by: Hari Seldon April 02, 2007 08:38 pm
have a look at the manufacturer www.durgol.ch, there the "Express" is only conditionally recommended for fully automatic machines...
Posted by: Guest April 03, 2007 12:56 am
According to the manufacturer, the same ingredients, unfortunately no quantities. From the recommended application list one can at most conclude that Durgol express should be less concentrated. But how much?
>I have to say, I hate this paternalism by the manufacturers...33; ! The buyer is told is too stupid to reckon 1 + 1 and is supposed to buy expensive small portion vials.
Posted by: Hari Seldon April 03, 2007 08:51 pm
why don't you order the descaler from De´Longhi at the De´Longhi customer service points? SER 1014 12,99 0,5 l is sufficient for 4 decalcifications...
Posted by: edwi April 10, 2007 03:45 pm
Very interesting ebay ad :
http://cgi.ebay.ch/Entkalker-Awimac-2-Liter-Durgol-Ceragol-andere-Auktion_W0QQitemZ200065898248QcategoryZ30344QQcmdZViewItem
It's really unbelievable what Durgol is doing and the vending machine manufacturers are pulling along.
Not with me!
Posted by: kirseb January 12, 2008 04:43 pm
Hi,
I ordered now 2 liters Awimac descaler for 19,55 € incl. shipping. That should last for years and is just as good according to the dealer.
Mal sehen...
Gruß
kirseb
Posted by: ticktack January 30, 2008 12:57 pm
Moin!
>I've been wondering for a while where the difference in the composition of Durgol Espresso and Expresso lies.
I find this information interesting (also note the "versions"):
http://www.codecheck.ch/waschen_reinigen/entkalker/7610243002667/Durgol_swiss_espresso.pro
If this is true, there seems to be about 15% amidosulfonic acid as active ingredient in both products. So the differences are openly "only" in the additives (for espresso: silicone oil, dyes / for express: ?).
The question remains whether the differences (if any) are really necessary, and whether they justify the price difference?! Looks very much like manufacturer-nepp... .
If you "courageously" choose Durgol Express, the concentration of the agent should be chosen according to the "espresso" variant, so that the concentration of the active ingredient is suitable for coffee machines.
Only if someone is interested (and it was not known anyway)...! ;)
Posted by: ticktack January 30, 2008 01:19 pm
Another supplement to the concentration of amidosulfonic acid:
Bin just stumbled over a rather credible sounding side, which indicates a drug content of "approx. 15% for Durgol Express", but only "15% for Durgol Espresso", so less... .
Only remarkable is that my original "operating instructions" for "Durgol Espresso" decalcifier contains the following information:
"Contains: 15% Amidosulfonic acid"
Also this indicates that the amount of active ingredient is about the same (approx. 15%), and other information is intended only to unsettle the price-conscious buyer (and sell the expensive espresso variant). But there everyone should form his own opinion... .
Posted by: ticktack January 30, 2008 01:23 pm
Which one does not have in the head... .
Here are the links to the above mentioned page:
br>Durgol Express: http://www.metro-haccp.com/at/data/at/upload/product/security_notice/100353.pdf
Durgol Espresso: http://www.metro-haccp.com/at/data/at/upload/product/security_notice/101535.pdf
Posted by: Gregorthom January 30, 2008 02:38 pm
Durgol Express is more aggressive than the "normal" Durgol, so more water needs to be added so it's not too aggressive for the VA.
Posted by: ticktack January 30, 2008 04:18 pm
Hello Gregorthom!
What makes you think that Durgol Express is more aggressive than the "normal" Durgol?! The decisive drug is amidosulfonic acid, right? And 15% is 15%? Am I missing something...?
What mixing ratio "Durgol Express : Water" would you use, and why?
If you know more (or I have a misconception or misinformation), please let me know with the information. Ultimately, I am interested in a distinction between the two products that is as sound as possible.
Wants to save money, but my VA shouldn't have to suffer from it... .
Thank you!
Posted by: Gregorthom January 30, 2008 05:16 pm
Quote from www.durgol.com:
"What is the difference between durgol® express and durgol® swiss espresso®?
durgol® express is a universal descaler for all household objects. durgol® swiss espresso® is a special descaler for high-quality espresso machines of all brands. The difference between the two products lies in the protection and care formula. durgol® swiss espresso® therefore shows a significantly different decalcification behaviour, which is specially adapted to the requirements of high-quality espresso machines. "
Posted by: Guest January 31, 2008 12:40 am
Moin!
If you follow the manufacturer's instructions, you will come to the conclusion that for espresso machines you should also use "Durgol Espresso". I am not really surprised that Durgol makes this recommendation... .
But: The question is finally (at least for me) whether Durgol doesn't want to sell almost the same product in different packaging at different prices? A quite usual behavior at the market.
My interpretation of the quoted www.durgol.com-Passage:
It is not spoken of differences in relation to the decalcification behavior, but very generally of a difference in the "protection and care formula.". Nor can it be inferred that "Durgol Express is more aggressive than "normal" Durgol", especially considering that in both agents the main decalcifying active ingredient is "15% amidosulfonic acid". Therefore, the formulation "protection and care formula" can also focus only on the additives. But are these really great different? And if so, is that relevant? A little like deciding whether to take Aspirin, the more expensive Aspirin+C or simply ASS... .
Have just found these data on the inhalants:
Durgol Express: Aqua, sulfamic acid CAS No. 005329-14-6, silicon oxide polymers, dyes
http://www.bauermuehle.en/product_info.php?info=p281_Durgol-express---Schnelltkalker-Haushalt--1000-ml-.html
(or on www.durgol.ch/de/duering.html)
Durgol Espresso: Aqua, sulfamic acid (CAS No. 005329-14-6), silica polymers
http://www.bauermuehle.de/product_info.php?info=p279_Durgol-express---Schnelltkalker--2x-125ml-.html
(or on www.durgol.ch/de/duering.html)
Things are already damn similar for me, especially with identical concentration of the main active substance. And that the dyes are at least harmless can be deduced from the Durgol classification of Durgol Express as "conditionally suitable" for espresso machines (also on www.durgol.ch/de/duering.html).
But everyone must form his own opinion. You have to be able to pour the remedy into the machine with a "good conscience" without fear of breaking something.
Good night...!
Posted by: Guest October 30, 2011 12:10 pm
Amidosulfuric acid in solid form corresponds to the amidosulfonic acid.
For about 40€ (1996 43,70 DM) you should get 2,5 kg by shipping chemicals.
If you would produce your own personal descaler with 15 weight percent active substance,
so that would be enough for 133 times 125ml.
That makes about 33 ct per decalcification.
The only problem: I consider the handling of such corrosive chemicals to be negligent without appropriate expertise.
However, the added value seems to be enormous here.
>
Posted by: Guest November 09, 2011 04:28 pm
Hello each other
durgol swiss espresso hardly foams while durgol universal is strongly foaming. In "new" coffee makers are very thin lines, which can be thrown out of the frame or even burst by spreading foam. This difference therefore makes sense. durgol universal can, however, be used without any problems for filter coffee machines, as these operate without pressure. As soon as there is pressure, only minimal foaming is allowed.
Although it is possible to mix something yourself, the corrosion protection is often forgotten. It may not matter with a 9 Euro kettle. With a coffee machine of a few hundred or a thousand euros one should consider that the acid comes into contact with various materials in a machine.
Beauty regards
Peter
Posted by: samson April 16, 2012 01:47 pm
So I have refrained for quite some time from buying the products "recommended" by the manufacturer, because in my opinion the price-performance ratio is almost never related!
I always buy my descaler in an eshop here: http://www.ersatzteilpartner-shop.de/entkalker.html and I am totally satisfied with it. Before that, I used vinegar most of the time.
Posted by: numberonedefender April 16, 2012 02:24 pm
Vinegar. 
That's a big tip 
In terms of price/performance this is probably the worst of all variants, because it scraps the MWIP or its seals...
Posted by: malankara May 14, 2012 09:08 am
Never ending story:
We have been working in this business for more than 15 years and can only tell you the following:
In the past there was only Durgol Express, which was the recommended descaler for Jura and other fully automatic machines. The only hook for the manufacturer: too cheap.
When we were presented with the new Swiss Espresso at Düring, the statement was: you can't actually make the Durgol Express any better...
In the following years, Düring tried with all means at its disposal to do just what capitolism is for: profit optimization by systematically insecuring customers by means of other pictures on the labels, ambiguous instructions for use and finally renaming the canister goods in Germany from Durgol Express to Durgol universal professional.
Make your own rhyme for it.
As a result many smaller companies have developed their own very good decalcifiers, which work absolutely harmless and well: e.g. SCHUEMLI (www.schuemlishop.de) or SHB and others.
Further price increases at Durgol Express have been announced and will help these "small" also to increase their prices.
Posted by: Drecek December 30, 2012 12:25 pm
Hello,
The pressure and hoses are ridiculous. The machine is designed for a working pressure of 15 bar (otherwise there's no crema), so it'll easily cope with the pressure generated by "express descaling".
The only place where things could go wrong is (in Jura at least) the line from the tank to the pump, where's is a back valve and where it's a low pressure line.
Greetings from Slovenia
Posted by: Kaffeeplanet December 30, 2012 01:58 pm
15 bar pressure *prust* what do you mean how high your coffee would splash if you actually had so much pressure?,the 15 bar where always advertised is only the highest pressure the pump could build up without bursting,in reality haste not even 1 bar in front of the outlet,rather less
Posted by: looser December 30, 2012 04:05 pm
I had measured a maximum of 1.6 bar at the brewing piston outlet.
Posted by: VanVuk December 22, 2020 12:25 pm
This is more or less a marketing trick. Even Jean-Luc Düring from the company Düring AG, manufacturer of the Swiss market leader "Durgol", says:
""Coffee machine manufacturers are increasingly refusing to honour warranties if the descaler they recommend is not used. "Kassensturz" therefore wanted to know whether it was really necessary. Jean-Luc Düring from the company Düring AG, manufacturer of the Swiss market leader "Durgol", says: "It's not really necessary. If you use another good descaler in the right dosage, you achieve practically the same result.
""https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassensturz-espresso/das-taugen-die-teuren-spezial-entkalkerKlar, then Durgol launched Durgol Swiss Espresso and used a neuse mantra...
Posted by: Steiner Rene February 15, 2021 11:24 am
I am in possession of a Schaerrer/WMF coffee machine Joy. Have just spoken to the manufacturer.they sell their own descaler. But a good friend who works there told me that their descaler is the same as the regular Durgol ( big bottle, I think 750 or 1 LIter ). The small bottles 125 ml are just more expensive and I would have to use 3 a 125ml on my machine now. So, take the cheaper big bottle of Durgol Express and don't be tempted to waste money. The whole thing has also irritated me because the Durgol Express the fully automatic coffee machine is no longer shown
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