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Claris Smart refill cartridges

Maybe there's a way

Windi

October 28, 2017 05:06 pm

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Jura has integrated an RFID chip into the Claris Smart cartridges, so that the machine automatically recognizes a new filter cartridge.
The information from Jura of course only sounds so that you don't accidentally insert an already used cartridge.
In reality, of course, you want to prevent refilling and sell your own expensive cartridges.
Refilling is possible if you deactivate filter recognition on the machine. But then you have to take care of the change intervals yourself because there will be no message from the machine anymore.

There must be a possibility to refill these cartridges and sell them to the machine as "new".

Now I ask myself the following question.
How or where does the machine remember if the filter has ever been used?
Writes it on the RFID chip or remembers it internally?
If it writes it on the RFID chip it would be stupid. Then a hack would be quite complex to impossible, because you can lock the RFID chips permanently against changes.

Merkt sie but internally I see here several possibilities.
The memory of the already used cartridges can not be infinitely large.
Sometime the oldest cartridge will "forget", so that you can use it again.
I have tried it now with 6 old cartridges. But she still knew them all.

Therefore I would like to try the following.
Simply use a used cartridge from another machine.
It can't know them yet.
If the machine accepts this cartridge, it's clear that it stores it internally.
This cartridge can then be filled.
If this works, you can introduce a replacement system of Claris Smart cartridges.
User A sends an empty cartridge to user B and vice versa.
If the cartridge is empty again, user A sends it to user C etc.
Now you have to find out if the machine accepts other used cartridges at all. If that works out, you can think about setting up an exchange system.

Who of you has an old Claris Smart cartridge and would send it to me (against reimbursement of shipping costs) so I can test it.

snowball

October 28, 2017 11:21 pm

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You can forget about the trade. Used filter cartridges cannot be used in any other machine. I had already dealt with this, with the result that the cartridges can no longer be reused.

The chips in the cartridges are described by the machine. Each chip has a unique ID that the Jura machine can remember. When the cartridge is used up, the cartridge is locked in the appropriate blocks. Each ml of water is stored on the chip. In addition, the switch-on cycles (if water was also used) are written to the chip.

The chips must also be specially addressed in order to be able to store data on them. They're easy to read, though. An Android Phone with the TagInfo App from NXP and you can read the chip. The code block 0 to 3 contains the unique ID. Block 8, the power-on cycles are stored. Block 10 to 1B is used for the flow rate. Maybe more (machine number). Block 1C to 1F I could change with a suitable RFID Writer at will, but before that not!

The following RFID Reader/Writer is installed in the vending machines: "https://fccid.io/2ADLV60900138/User-Manual/UserManual-pdf-2550467.pdf"

I gave up the chip story. Possibilities that would be there: to procure suitable blanks and replace the old ones. But also here I would think that they have to be prepared accordingly. In the new state the chip is already described. In addition, procurement is unlikely to be quite cheap. Thus no option mMn.
Another possibility would be to record and decode the communication between the Jura controller and the RFID reader/writer. A ‎proprietary protocol such as the serial Jura connector, which has already been decrypted, could also be used here. Perhaps the same?

I will rely on an external solution here, without these RFID chips, but with complex additional hardware.

kaffeechris

October 29, 2017 11:31 am

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Filter cartridges, please remove the side wall from your KVA and look at the water-carrying hoses.
If you have such hard water get an under-table descaler Amatur and /or descalcify with reasonable descaler on amidosulfonic acid.

MfG Chris



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Windi

October 29, 2017 05:22 pm

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QUOTE (snowball @ Saturday, 28. October 2017, 22:21 hrs)October 2017, 22:21 hrs)
I will use an external solution here, without these RFID chips, but with expensive additional hardware.

Danceman

October 29, 2017 10:15 pm

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With a cartridge you still have to decalcify, so why spend money on it at all? Simply decalcify and save a lot of money, and above all have a machine that lasts longer! And in addition you don't have a precarious small biotope in the cartridge...



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Pessimist: Ganz schön dunkel hier...
Optimist: Ich seh ein Licht am Ende des Tunnels...
Realist: Mist, da kommt ein Zug...
Zugführer: Was machen die 3 Deppen auf den Gleisen?

snowball

October 30, 2017 03:16 pm

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QUOTE (Windi @ Sunday, October 29, 2017)October 2017, 16:22pm)
What external solution are you planning?

One on microcontroller basis. The flow sensor is tapped to measure the flow rate. In addition, there is a humidity sensor, an alternative fan that regulates accordingly. A relay which switches on the machine at two different times via a time controlled RTC. A LC display for config and various real-time displays. In principle already an overkill project wink.gif

QUOTE (Danceman @ Sunday, 29.October 2017, 21:15 o'clock)
You still have to decalcify with a cartridge, so why spend money on it at all? Simply decalcify and save a lot of money, and above all have a machine that lasts longer! And in addition you don't have a precarious small biotope in the cartridge...

That the biotope is really very far fetched now. If the water is in the cartridge for weeks, common sense would already say away with it. There's nothing to worry about with a daily supply. Clean the water tank once a week. I would be more concerned about the silicone tubes, which after about 2 years show coloured soiling. I do decalcifying once a year despite filter cartridges.

Balkomosi

January 11, 2018 12:23 pm

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Hello, I have the Jura E8 with the new Smart Chip Filter.
I want to replace the filter granulate from the original cartridge.
Is there a way to interrupt or deactivate the filter communication with the machine?
The removal of the chip from the filter is unfortunately not non-destructive.

Greß Mike

Danceman

January 11, 2018 06:56 pm

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Get into the subject and just leave out the bullets. This is money thrown out, just like the famous descaler for the washing machine. If you take finished detergent also absolute nonsense that only helps the manufacturer and rather harms the machines...

I also remain in the process that in a refilled cartridge over time all kinds of strange things arise. The water tank doesn't change that either. If I clean my aquarium from the outside it doesn't change anything about the dirt inside...



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Pessimist: Ganz schön dunkel hier...
Optimist: Ich seh ein Licht am Ende des Tunnels...
Realist: Mist, da kommt ein Zug...
Zugführer: Was machen die 3 Deppen auf den Gleisen?

Kaffeepoint

January 13, 2018 12:46 am

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Super answer Danceman.
Let the cartridges just go away or if then the originals. Anything else just puts germs in the water. We've seen the most horrible things in the workshop. In addition, the filters are never completely tight and contaminate the hoses and the water system considerably.

MfG Paul



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KVA:WMF 800 ST: Lelit Bianca PL 162

snowball

January 15, 2018 12:04 am

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Reading into the subject of water filters really helps immensely. That with the lime, there's something to it. Can remind me of the old Z5 where the heat exchanger was clogged with lime after one year despite the filter. In the worst case, this will eat through the seal and you will have water leakage at the point. Recently on my Z6 I also saw some limescale residue underneath the ceramic valve. At least they have developed a better concept of the heat exchanger.

I will run the descaler 3 times a year in the future. Then let's see what can be seen about the year.

Nevertheless I will continue to use water filters. These still filter out other things, which makes sense depending on the age of the flat/pipeline. My own refill system has been finished for a while, but I still have to fine-tune the software. The refill systems from the well known shops are unfortunately not the real thing when it comes to construction/concept as well as durability and value. Inside they are also difficult to clean.

QUOTE (Balkomosi @ Thursday, January 11, 2018).January 2018, 11:23am)
Hello, I have the Jura E8 with the new Smart Chip Filter.
I want to replace the filter granulate from the original cartridge.
Is there a possibility to interrupt or deactivate the filter communication with the machine?
The removal of the chip from the filter is unfortunately not non-destructive.

Greeting Mike

You could interrupt the communication by disconnecting the cable from the coil of the RFID reader. But it won't do you any good. After all, you don't know how much water went through it. Flushing the filter doesn't work either, because the machine thinks you don't have one. The refill systems for the Otto Normal consumer are only suitable for machines without the IWS.

Guest

January 15, 2018 01:21 pm

Unregistered

Hello,
I tried a little bit and was able to interrupt the radio between filter and machine permanently - a small plate of aluminium foil on the right place from the outside and already the communication was interrupted - bingo!

Now I can refill the original cartridges and use without the machine complains. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately with us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year.
With such hard water, the coffee taste falls by the wayside without filtering because aromas and fine acid are neutralized and I would have to set 2 beans more to get a little coffee taste at all.

As I said, the use of special filter granulate serves me exclusively to filter unwanted flavors in hard water, properly decalcified is nevertheless.

After reading out the covers but after 6 weeks at the latest, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in.


Greeting Mike

Kaffeepoint

January 15, 2018 07:34 pm

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...and after two years the machine is then at the end (lime) .



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KVA:WMF 800 ST: Lelit Bianca PL 162

Balkomosi

January 15, 2018 08:31 pm

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Why? 2-3 decalcifications in a year or more, depending on which the machine responds at set 16dH ?

Danceman

January 16, 2018 07:34 am

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QUOTE
For 2-3 decalcifications in a year or more, depending on which the machine reports at set 16dH ?

You're right, of course. Then of course the machine will not calcify...

QUOTE
The use of special filter granulate serves exclusively to filter unwanted flavorings in hard water



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Pessimist: Ganz schön dunkel hier...
Optimist: Ich seh ein Licht am Ende des Tunnels...
Realist: Mist, da kommt ein Zug...
Zugführer: Was machen die 3 Deppen auf den Gleisen?

freakofevil

January 28, 2018 11:28 pm

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In general I would filter the water externally because the water from e.g. Britta water filter can be used for other devices too, not only in the fully automatic mode.

But the one with the rfid chip is a nice tinkering project for microcontrollers.

Does the fully automatic mode really write on the chip?
Every rfid chip has a number - Jura could also store this number on a memory in a fully automatic machine - so you can also evaluate which cartridge was already installed

If the machine describes the chip in the cartridge it would be conceivable to read out the new cartridge with an arduino?
Save values and when you have filled again write back the original values?

Then the machine would think that it is a new cartridge or?

Saves the value of the cartridge internally the machine would have to delete this value somehow from the machine or give the cartridge a new number that the machine thinks it is a new cartridge

What do you think about the approaches? Has anyone ever tried anything like this before?

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