Claris Smart refill cartridges
Posted by: Windi October 28, 2017 05:06 pm
Jura has integrated an RFID chip into the Claris Smart cartridges, so that the machine automatically recognizes a new filter cartridge.
The information from Jura of course only sounds so that you don't accidentally insert an already used cartridge.
In reality, of course, you want to prevent refilling and sell your own expensive cartridges.
Refilling is possible if you deactivate filter recognition on the machine. But then you have to take care of the change intervals yourself because there will be no message from the machine anymore.
There must be a possibility to refill these cartridges and sell them to the machine as "new".
Now I ask myself the following question.
How or where does the machine remember if the filter has ever been used?
Writes it on the RFID chip or remembers it internally?
If it writes it on the RFID chip it would be stupid. Then a hack would be quite complex to impossible, because you can lock the RFID chips permanently against changes.
Merkt sie but internally I see here several possibilities.
The memory of the already used cartridges can not be infinitely large.
Sometime the oldest cartridge will "forget", so that you can use it again.
I have tried it now with 6 old cartridges. But she still knew them all.
Therefore I would like to try the following.
Simply use a used cartridge from another machine.
It can't know them yet.
If the machine accepts this cartridge, it's clear that it stores it internally.
This cartridge can then be filled.
If this works, you can introduce a replacement system of Claris Smart cartridges.
User A sends an empty cartridge to user B and vice versa.
If the cartridge is empty again, user A sends it to user C etc.
Now you have to find out if the machine accepts other used cartridges at all. If that works out, you can think about setting up an exchange system.
Who of you has an old Claris Smart cartridge and would send it to me (against reimbursement of shipping costs) so I can test it.
Posted by: snowball October 28, 2017 11:21 pm
You can forget about the trade. Used filter cartridges cannot be used in any other machine. I had already dealt with this, with the result that the cartridges can no longer be reused.
The chips in the cartridges are described by the machine. Each chip has a unique ID that the Jura machine can remember. When the cartridge is used up, the cartridge is locked in the appropriate blocks. Each ml of water is stored on the chip. In addition, the switch-on cycles (if water was also used) are written to the chip.
The chips must also be specially addressed in order to be able to store data on them. They're easy to read, though. An Android Phone with the TagInfo App from NXP and you can read the chip. The code block 0 to 3 contains the unique ID. Block 8, the power-on cycles are stored. Block 10 to 1B is used for the flow rate. Maybe more (machine number). Block 1C to 1F I could change with a suitable RFID Writer at will, but before that not!
The following RFID Reader/Writer is installed in the vending machines: "https://fccid.io/2ADLV60900138/User-Manual/UserManual-pdf-2550467.pdf"
I gave up the chip story. Possibilities that would be there: to procure suitable blanks and replace the old ones. But also here I would think that they have to be prepared accordingly. In the new state the chip is already described. In addition, procurement is unlikely to be quite cheap. Thus no option mMn.
Another possibility would be to record and decode the communication between the Jura controller and the RFID reader/writer. A proprietary protocol such as the serial Jura connector, which has already been decrypted, could also be used here. Perhaps the same?
I will rely on an external solution here, without these RFID chips, but with complex additional hardware.
Posted by: kaffeechris October 29, 2017 11:31 am
Filter cartridges, please remove the side wall from your KVA and look at the water-carrying hoses.
If you have such hard water get an under-table descaler Amatur and /or descalcify with reasonable descaler on amidosulfonic acid.
MfG Chris
Posted by: Windi October 29, 2017 05:22 pm
| QUOTE (snowball @ Saturday, 28. October 2017, 22:21 hrs)October 2017, 22:21 hrs) |
| I will use an external solution here, without these RFID chips, but with expensive additional hardware. |
Thanks for your helpful information.
Up to now I had not been able to read the cartridges via NFC.
Today I tried it again and it worked.
However, you have to place the mobile phone very exactly so that it works with the readout.
I see it now unfortunately similar to you that you can not get further with RFID. It would certainly be possible and an interesting challenge to get involved in the communication between Jura and the RFID reader and create a "software cartridge" based on a microcontroller, but unfortunately I don't have the time.
What kind of external solution do you have planned?
Posted by: Danceman October 29, 2017 10:15 pm
With a cartridge you still have to decalcify, so why spend money on it at all? Simply decalcify and save a lot of money, and above all have a machine that lasts longer! And in addition you don't have a precarious small biotope in the cartridge...
Posted by: snowball October 30, 2017 03:16 pm
| QUOTE (Windi @ Sunday, October 29, 2017)October 2017, 16:22pm) |
| What external solution are you planning? |
One on microcontroller basis. The flow sensor is tapped to measure the flow rate. In addition, there is a humidity sensor, an alternative fan that regulates accordingly. A relay which switches on the machine at two different times via a time controlled RTC. A LC display for config and various real-time displays. In principle already an overkill project
| QUOTE (Danceman @ Sunday, 29.October 2017, 21:15 o'clock) |
| You still have to decalcify with a cartridge, so why spend money on it at all? Simply decalcify and save a lot of money, and above all have a machine that lasts longer! And in addition you don't have a precarious small biotope in the cartridge... |
That the biotope is really very far fetched now. If the water is in the cartridge for weeks, common sense would already say away with it. There's nothing to worry about with a daily supply. Clean the water tank once a week. I would be more concerned about the silicone tubes, which after about 2 years show coloured soiling. I do decalcifying once a year despite filter cartridges.
Posted by: Balkomosi January 11, 2018 12:23 pm
Hello, I have the Jura E8 with the new Smart Chip Filter.
I want to replace the filter granulate from the original cartridge.
Is there a way to interrupt or deactivate the filter communication with the machine?
The removal of the chip from the filter is unfortunately not non-destructive.
Greß Mike
Posted by: Danceman January 11, 2018 06:56 pm
Get into the subject and just leave out the bullets. This is money thrown out, just like the famous descaler for the washing machine. If you take finished detergent also absolute nonsense that only helps the manufacturer and rather harms the machines...
I also remain in the process that in a refilled cartridge over time all kinds of strange things arise. The water tank doesn't change that either. If I clean my aquarium from the outside it doesn't change anything about the dirt inside...
Posted by: Kaffeepoint January 13, 2018 12:46 am
Super answer Danceman.
Let the cartridges just go away or if then the originals. Anything else just puts germs in the water. We've seen the most horrible things in the workshop. In addition, the filters are never completely tight and contaminate the hoses and the water system considerably.
MfG Paul
Posted by: snowball January 15, 2018 12:04 am
Reading into the subject of water filters really helps immensely. That with the lime, there's something to it. Can remind me of the old Z5 where the heat exchanger was clogged with lime after one year despite the filter. In the worst case, this will eat through the seal and you will have water leakage at the point. Recently on my Z6 I also saw some limescale residue underneath the ceramic valve. At least they have developed a better concept of the heat exchanger.
I will run the descaler 3 times a year in the future. Then let's see what can be seen about the year.
Nevertheless I will continue to use water filters. These still filter out other things, which makes sense depending on the age of the flat/pipeline. My own refill system has been finished for a while, but I still have to fine-tune the software. The refill systems from the well known shops are unfortunately not the real thing when it comes to construction/concept as well as durability and value. Inside they are also difficult to clean.
| QUOTE (Balkomosi @ Thursday, January 11, 2018).January 2018, 11:23am) |
| Hello, I have the Jura E8 with the new Smart Chip Filter. I want to replace the filter granulate from the original cartridge. Is there a possibility to interrupt or deactivate the filter communication with the machine? The removal of the chip from the filter is unfortunately not non-destructive. Greeting Mike |
You could interrupt the communication by disconnecting the cable from the coil of the RFID reader. But it won't do you any good. After all, you don't know how much water went through it. Flushing the filter doesn't work either, because the machine thinks you don't have one. The refill systems for the Otto Normal consumer are only suitable for machines without the IWS.
Posted by: Guest January 15, 2018 01:21 pm
Hello,
I tried a little bit and was able to interrupt the radio between filter and machine permanently - a small plate of aluminium foil on the right place from the outside and already the communication was interrupted - bingo!
Now I can refill the original cartridges and use without the machine complains. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately with us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year.
With such hard water, the coffee taste falls by the wayside without filtering because aromas and fine acid are neutralized and I would have to set 2 beans more to get a little coffee taste at all.
As I said, the use of special filter granulate serves me exclusively to filter unwanted flavors in hard water, properly decalcified is nevertheless.
After reading out the covers but after 6 weeks at the latest, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in.
Greeting Mike
Posted by: Kaffeepoint January 15, 2018 07:34 pm
...and after two years the machine is then at the end (lime) .
Posted by: Balkomosi January 15, 2018 08:31 pm
Why? 2-3 decalcifications in a year or more, depending on which the machine responds at set 16dH ?
Posted by: Danceman January 16, 2018 07:34 am
| QUOTE |
| For 2-3 decalcifications in a year or more, depending on which the machine reports at set 16dH ? |
You're right, of course. Then of course the machine will not calcify...
| QUOTE |
| The use of special filter granulate serves exclusively to filter unwanted flavorings in hard water |
I have the possibility to fetch lime-free tap water in my parents house which is very close to distilled water because it contains nothing else, or to fill my own tap water with around 20° and a very high mineral content. When I forgot to fill the canister again I used my hard tap water: The coffee tastes much rounder and fuller with the hard water.
It doesn't always have to be that way, but I have often read that mineral-rich water can change the taste. Whether you feel this positive or negative is of course a matter of taste.
In any case, I remain an opponent of the filters because I have already repaired enough broken machines with filters without much effort. They were always only limed up and the refill filters partly smelled like the aquarium external filter when opening.
Posted by: freakofevil January 28, 2018 11:28 pm
In general I would filter the water externally because the water from e.g. Britta water filter can be used for other devices too, not only in the fully automatic mode.
But the one with the rfid chip is a nice tinkering project for microcontrollers.
Does the fully automatic mode really write on the chip?
Every rfid chip has a number - Jura could also store this number on a memory in a fully automatic machine - so you can also evaluate which cartridge was already installed
If the machine describes the chip in the cartridge it would be conceivable to read out the new cartridge with an arduino?
Save values and when you have filled again write back the original values?
Then the machine would think that it is a new cartridge or?
Saves the value of the cartridge internally the machine would have to delete this value somehow from the machine or give the cartridge a new number that the machine thinks it is a new cartridge
What do you think about the approaches? Has anyone ever tried anything like this before?
Posted by: Kaffeepoint January 29, 2018 11:02 pm
The machine writes on the chip. Thus it is also possible to filter the filter under different conditions. The filter can also be removed and reused at a later date. When the filter is used up, the machine goes into normal water mode and reports decalcifying after some time.
MfG Paul
Posted by: freakofevil January 30, 2018 05:15 pm
Well then it should be possible to read out the chip if it is new and after the refill again just enter these values
Pity that my z5 does not have something like that I would like to test
If someone donated an old filter I could test the chip with an arduino to read out
Have already built up a rfid reader anyway
Which rfid chip Jura has built in there? There are a couple of different standards.
Posted by: Tuxtom007 January 30, 2018 10:21 pm
| QUOTE (Danceman @ Tuesday, January 16, 2018)January 2018, 06:34 am) |
| It doesn't always have to be like this, but I've often read that mineral-rich water can change the taste. Whether you feel this positive or negative is of course a matter of taste. |
Minerals are substances that have a big influence on the taste of water and minerals are also good for the body.
These3 whole filters and water purifiers are in my opinion pure moneymaking and do not bring much in terms of taste with coffee.
>The choice of a good coffee has significantly more influence.
( I just drink hand filtered Tchibo private coffee - used to be my favorite, now it's tasty ........ )
Posted by: snowball January 31, 2018 12:27 am
| QUOTE (freakofevil @ Tuesday, January 30, 2018, 16:15 pm) |
| Then it should be possible to read out the chip if it is new and after the refill it should be able to enter these values again Pity that my z5 does not have something like that I would like to test it If somebody gave me an old filter I could test the chip with an arduino Had I just built one up as a rfid reader White somebody which rfid chip Jura has built in there? There are a few different standards |
If your RFID reader supports the ISO/IEC 15693 standard, you can try the Arduino.
Included chip in the filter: "http://www.emmicroelectronic.com/products/rf-identification-security/nfc-high-frequency-ics/em4233slic"
In order to fool the KVA one would first have to find out the protocol used and the corresponding commands. Then you can dare to fake the chip.
Posted by: Emmy.Boston February 13, 2018 01:42 pm
@ snowball: You write above you have described the chip of the Claris Smart, with which hardware if I may ask?
I have read the chip with an Android and the app and can confirm your statements.
Posted by: Emmy.Boston February 14, 2018 03:04 pm
In the appendix a used cartridge on the left, a new one on the right.
Posted by: Emmy.Boston February 15, 2018 11:03 am
I have now read a few more Smart Filters, data in the attachment
Posted by: Kaffeepoint February 17, 2018 11:06 am
Doesn't that ever stop? Get rid of those stupid filters. It just costs a lot of money. Refilled and otherwise manipulated filters even more so (machine damage). Descaler is much cheaper and more effective. If we always look at the old filters, how contaminated they are, we get the horror.
The hoses are black from the activated carbon, ergo I have that also in the coffee. Okay, helps with diarrhea. 
Posted by: snowball February 18, 2018 02:18 am
@Emmy.Boston
Block 08 stores the number of water-related power-up cycles.
Block 10 to 1B is the water consumption. I've tried decoding these values before, without success. Put it down just like you in a table like that. I had tried to describe these blocks, but it didn't work. A certain command sequence is probably expected here.
Block 1C to 1F, on the other hand, are completely free. I was able to fill them with my own values using my RFID reader/writer. I'd have to check on that device. I'll let you know later.
@Coffee point
We've been putting filters in our 2 KVAs since the beginning and had never had black tubes. What I can only imagine is that there might be dust from the activated carbon in self refilled cartridges. And if present, the filter is flushed out to a large extent. It is certainly not detectable in coffee, or does water recently dissolve activated carbon? It is not the case that activated carbon is added directly, as is the case with other newfangled foods.
As our drinking water quality tends to deteriorate rather than improve, mMn filters certainly improve water quality. You don't always have to hold your own convictions against others.
As far as the different refill cartridges that can be bought are concerned, I can't (anymore) say anything about it. Had once a refill type that was too cumbersome for me, anyway not long in use - durability was extremely low, the thing broke at the upper part.
Posted by: Danceman February 18, 2018 09:12 am
| QUOTE | |
| that in self refilled cartridges there may be Dust from activated carbon could be present |
But isn't this about refilling yourself from these silly, expensive, unnecessary filters? Basically I have nothing against filters, because so I get again and again limed and soiled machines for lukewarm.
Filter out, hoses new, hardcore decalcify and the water ways from the bacteria modder free, and already I have a as good as new machine.
When I like filters, I would never use garbage like this myself. If a machine does not work properly, the question of a filter is already part of the standard procedure in the forums, because the filters are simply nonsense, cause a lot of problems, and only benefit the manufacturer. And so bad water there is in Germany not at all that this would be necessary at all. And if I did, I'd have a filtration system in the basement, not just the MVA.
| QUOTE |
| You don't have to keep repeating your own convictions to others |
I think too. One should finally let the silly topic with the self-production of bacterial cultures rest by outwitting the RFID chip. Nobody needs filters, and even less for refilling in the food sector.
At most for the people who also put their pots dirty back in the cupboard to cook the next noodles. But fortunately for the people it says on the frozen pizza that the foil should be removed before heating...
| QUOTE | |
| If we always look at the old filters to see how germgy they are, we get the horror. |
But so from... I'd rather drink my water from the aquarium. This doesn't smell as bad as the Schmodder in the (refill) filters...
Posted by: snowball February 18, 2018 12:04 pm
The way I see it, you have no idea about water quality. With you it probably also applies that everywhere in Germany the same quality must be present. You probably haven't had one controlling your drinking water quality yet. As a rule, this is arranged in multi-party houses with existing administration. But no matter, you two are only interested in the basic opinion that filters harm people.
Well, I have to start from my side, and I still have the waste incineration plant under my wings, no diseases or complaints have occurred through the filter insert.
If you/your machines are getting the misiffed, rather another question arises: how do they deal with their machines? Daily use, or just from time to time? Were they in between at the service? Did they wash out the water tank at least once a week? VMAs standing in the office are among the worst cases I can think of. Everybody wants to drink, but the fewest want to keep clean.
Our KVAs did not have any contaminated filters until now. Had that opened after use, you'd see and feel that first. And since our KVAs are also decalcified regularly (at least 2 times a year), we haven't had any clogged components so far.
Posted by: Kaffeepoint February 18, 2018 12:25 pm
We have on average 15 machines per day for service or repair (50% Jura and 50% others). I've been doing this for more than 20 years. It is true that there are old lead or steel pipes in houses where a filter would be worthwhile, but then not only for the KVA but for the whole kitchen.
You don't even have to open the filters, just take a look at the inlet strainer where the brown Pampe is hanging.
Believe me, the hoses are black, like to take some pictures.
Egal , as Danceman already wrote, there are then used or broken machines for umme. 
Posted by: Kaffeepoint February 18, 2018 12:27 pm
Oh yes, what else, if he is, as he wrote, an aquarist, he has more idea about water than the rest of the population.
Posted by: snowball February 18, 2018 01:41 pm
Not at all. With his statement that no one needs filters in MWIPs, the discussion leads to nothing. At least you have realized that there are differences even in the management. Then I can only do what I can do here, to use a filter with KVAs. Furthermore, I can also allow the pipe to run longer with hot water.
And what you have written, I can partly also confirm. I had once given a colleague a filter for his older machine that didn't fit in our Jura Z6. It actually didn't come back for months with the filter. That's how it looked, brown at the bottom of the gasket. Here it turned out after more exact inquiries that the KVA was used only now and then, the water tank was not washed out.
But we should remain here then nevertheless with the actual topic. If you want to have a basic discussion on the subject of water filters, you are welcome to do so in a separate thread.
Posted by: snowball February 18, 2018 02:05 pm
@Emmy.Boston
I bought the Omnikey 5321 v2 CL for reading and writing. Is not a standard device now, the manufacturer does not provide any programs for the easy use of the device, but only APIs to implement them in your own applications.
Haven't given up so fast and found a program that communicates with this device. Depending on the device, the syntax (APDU commands) may differ, docs confirm my assumption. In addition, the different standards, each with different transmission sequences/requirements, make the task more difficult.
That helps very little in this respect. First, the communication between KVA and its RFID reader/writer must be analyzed and the command sequence must be determined. This works via a serial connection, probably similar to that of the Jura serial port (at the back of the KVA).
Posted by: Danceman February 19, 2018 09:58 pm
| QUOTE | |
| With his statement that no human needs filters in KVAs, the discussion leads to nothing |
If I use NEW filters in only 2 machines I would not allow myself a representative judgement about refill filters yet. Because just because I flew to Malle once, I'm not a pilot yet. Soon as we see it, it really leads nowhere. And to name "choked" "refill filters" in direct connection with "water quality" simply requires too much trust in God from my point of view...
And I doubt whether there are really so many lead pipes. The water utilities renewed it ages ago. In the 80s I dug enough water connections as a holiday job. They've already switched to plastic. Lead should be very rare even in houses nowadays...
Of course everybody may fill his filters with barbecue charcoal, cat litter and potting soil if he feels like it. Or simply reset the chip and save the change. Everyone as it satisfies his personal requirements. I don't have to drink the broth...
If I can understand "new filters" maybe even conditionally, then it just stops with me when refilling. It's about drinking water and not about insider tips about watering the garden. Maybe a reset of the chip will also completely disinfect, sterilize and fill the filter? But also go with a prayer. A prayer certainly always helps...
If I can't afford a new filter, then just leave it out! I can't drive Mustang and then hope that he drives with salad oil because the fuel is too expensive for me...
Sowa is more suitable for savers who surely also have enough ideas how to dry the marc and brew it again to save money. With the car nobody would come on the idea to tinker his oil filter even from a Cola can, old jeans and toilet paper to save a few euros. But when it comes to food, any strange idea seems to be right. That's why we also pack organic cucumbers in plastic foil...
Whether I as an aquarist know more about water quality than the rest? Well, my aquarium doesn't smell as dirty and unpleasant as these silly (refill) filters. The knowledge is enough for me to decide that the Schmodder is not good for me. But I actually know a little more about water than non aquarists. Who else looks at water analyses at the water supplier? Brings the hobby just so with itself...
I remain that such filters on Orientexpeditionen prima are, but in Germany are just as necessary as the well-known decalcifying tablets for washing machines...
But perhaps also sometimes think about why there are filters with chips at all. Namely exactly for the people who would rather reseten than change filters again and again as long as water still runs through, or who absolutely want to refill unhygenically. I think it's a good idea to prevent that kind of gross nonsense so far...
Posted by: Emmy.Boston February 20, 2018 01:57 pm
@snowball @All
I didn't start this thread to start a discussion if "filters make sense or not". I simply wanted to use a refill system for these Jura devices as well. And I don't like to be prescribed by the manufacturer how to handle it.
My concern is not to know what and how the Aquis Claris module writes information on the chip of the cartridge.
My mental approach would be the following:
1. Make a copy of some unused chips
2. Place the copies close to the reader
3. Use normal blue Claris and place a new unused chip when changing.
>For me this raises the following questions:
a. Can I make a copy of the chip's data? It's also not that easy to get, I only found it at Alibaba
b. how many filters does the machine remember?
Posted by: Tuxtom007 February 21, 2018 10:57 pm
| QUOTE (snowball @ Sunday, February 18, 2018, 01:18 p.m.)February 2018, 01:18 a.m.) |
| Since our drinking water quality is getting worse rather than better, filters mMn do improve water quality. |
Many mineral or table waters could consider themselves lucky if they approached the quality of tap water.
Such about the quality of German drinking water.
I agree, the filters are money thrown out and since I don't use them anymore, the coffee also tastes better.
In addition, you have to descale the machine regularly when using filters.
In my dealer's workshop I saw machines from the inside that were used with filters and not descaled. Can fully understand Kaffeepoint there.
Posted by: Emmy.Boston February 22, 2018 10:54 am
Hello,
I would like to ask you to come back to the actual topic...
It is "Claris Smart Cartridge refill" and not "water filters in fully automatic coffee machines make sense"
Posted by: snowball February 23, 2018 05:16 pm
| QUOTE (Tuxtom007 @ Wednesday, February 21, 2018) (Tuxtom007 @ Wednesday, February 21, 2014)February 2018, 21:57 hrs) |
| Much about the quality of German drinking water. |
This quality corresponds to the quality after direct water reprocessing as well as at the corresponding tapping points in the main distribution pipe network of the respective municipal utilities. This cannot be applied 1:1 to the quality of the water from your own tap. And the laboratory responsible for us says different values. The good man certainly didn't come to my place out of boredom to take another sample
And I also take such opportunities to look more closely at the quality of the water from my region.@Emmy.Boston
Back to Topic? I'm in. The chips can't be copied. These must then be described in the same way (with the command sequence). The values you've read don't help much for now. This is because the data and relevant areas are protected (with a special security protocol or with an additional password). If you can put blank chips under the machine, you probably have to test it first. But you have to try some of the blank chips yourself. Is the frequency and the ISO standard sufficient? Do they have to be chips from a specific manufacturer? The number of blocks and their size must match in any case. In addition to the unresolved factors, questions about inexpensive and timely procurement have discouraged me rather than that I have pursued this further.
Posted by: mundi49 September 30, 2018 02:03 pm
Hello to Alle
Many posts can be found here, meaningful, well-meaning, technically demanding and many others.
All are wondering if it makes sense to refill a filter.
I had an Impressa S9 Avantgard. Therefore I bought a bucket of filter granulate and regularly replenished my filters with new granulate. That was good.
Now I have a Jura E8 with new Smart Filter and Chip. What?
After reading a lot of opinions, I came to the following decision:
Use granules!
>For all of you who want to do the same, I have the following instructions:
1. Used Jura Smart cartridge with a 10 mm hole at the top.
2. empty the old granulate and clean the filter cartridge so that it becomes hygienic.
3. fill in the new granulate and close the opening with silicone corks (I had from the S9). Important: fill approx. 4/5, the granulate expands on contact with water.
4. Insert cartridge into the tank.
5. Cut an aluminium foil to size and stick it over the water inlet of the Jura. Two small strips of Tesa foil are sufficient for fastening. Cut out the filling hole and put on the tank. Finished!
The aluminium foil interrupts the communication between the filter and the Jura. The message no longer appears: "Filter capacity is exhausted." The Jura starts with the setting without filter. That wass.
Important: Please clean the filter after emptying. Of course also the water tank, which is well served by frequent cleaning. Regular descaling is the order of the day. Please adjust the hardness of your water at the Jura correctly. You can find out the degree of hardness at Wasserwerk.
Test strips are not always reliable.
Disclaimer: If you want to use this procedure, you do so at your own risk. The liability on my part is excluded!
>At the end:
There are many different water qualities. Whether your water needs to be filtered for the Jura depends on many factors. Many meaningful contributions of my predecessors will provide many suggestions, interesting facts and experiences.
Maybe I could help with this mail.
Posted by: Kaffeepoint November 03, 2018 02:21 pm
Why don't you just take a Claris Blue instead of the smart? They're compatible. Goes then also without aluminium foil and Tesa. Man, oh, man.
Posted by: snowball November 03, 2018 03:01 pm
The hole was then drilled at the top and then at the side. Right from the top would be the white filter cap. I have headed my used filters to be able to empty the granulate quickly and easily, as well as to clean the inside and the filter cap. I also removed the chip, because under these always residual granulate collects.
The other question would be, how to measure the water flow through coffee, rinsing, cleaning. If one does it without technical means, then one must estimate if a regular and constant coffee purchase per day the change, or keep a tally ^^
Posted by: Kaffeepoint November 10, 2018 12:57 pm
So what? But you won't get the idea to refill it after the first or third filter either. When it is time to buy a Claris Blue and is good's. UVP at Jura for both 13,99€.
Posted by: snowball November 19, 2018 06:10 pm
In the long run it was of course clear that the filters had to be refilled themselves. Only I wanted to know first how it worked with the chip in the filter, if it already existed in addition. And during the warranty period, you don't just screw around with the machine. For technically not affine users this is not comprehensible anyway.
Posted by: Refill & RFID deaktivierung January 05, 2019 12:27 pm
RFID deaktivieren:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2zY4mJFuYw&t=30s
Refill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXzGw7eVS3g
Posted by: snowball January 08, 2019 10:38 pm
As it has been written above by someone, you take the Claris Blue if you don't need the RFID chip or if you don't want to block the communication chip/transmitter with foil. Doesn't look like it. In addition, the chip is rather counterproductive when it is emptied, because there is always some residual granulate jamming underneath.
I don't find the refilling with the hole on the side so good. First of all you can't get the used granulate out, if necessary you have to rinse it out, on the other hand you can't clean the white cap which is put on the inside. The more often you refill it, the more it gets clogged.
Posted by: Henrik January 11, 2019 07:21 pm
Thanks for sharing the Refill & RFID deaktivierung!
Posted by: Gast_Francis June 07, 2019 10:48 am
Hi Guys,
I cracked the Jura chip thing customizing a Chamemeon-Mini rebooted chip simulator :-) Now I fill my cartridge myself (~0.5€ per refill) and the E8 tells we when I need to refill it again. And no need to "entkalken", regular cleaning with pills from Amazon (9;99€ the 120 pieces).
Posted by: basti43 August 13, 2019 09:16 pm
I solved the problem without much technical effort
: Existing used filter cartridges were cut open cleanly at the top, an opening of about 30 mm was created, used granulate washed out cleanly, new granulate filled in, the hole at the top I close with a correspondingly large plastic plug, which sits tightly on the middle rod of the filter. Problem solved. Now comes the clou, the connection water tank to the machine must be neutralized. I achieved this by using an aluminium strip with a hole for the water passage. Now the machine no longer automatically displays the filter change, i.e. monitor it manually, but decalcification and the cleaning cycle are still displayed.
Enjoy the saved filter cartridges.
The Knobler of the service
Posted by: Gast_Peter September 17, 2019 05:36 am
Did anyone try this trick with the Z6 or Z8?
It seems that the inlet for the water is changed with a plastic ring, so you cant do it like in the video...
Posted by: Gast_Francis October 20, 2019 10:17 pm
Indeed you can refill the cartridge and disable the chip detection, but in this case the machine will regularly request tartar removal "entkalkung", and if you don't do it you will loose the warranty. Level of cartridge wearing is unknown as well.
And it's so funny to see the leds blinking on my chip simulator while the machine is thinking a genuine, expensive cartridge is installed :-)
Posted by: Gast_marco December 31, 2019 03:00 pm
Wow, so finally you hacked it!
Can you give some more details on how you use it?
How did you get the emulation details?
Its the chameleon mini revE rebooted?
How did you install it on the machine?
Lots of questions...
Best regards
Marco
Posted by: Gast_Francis January 19, 2020 11:36 pm
Hi Marco,
indeed I hacked it. Actually I sniffed the exchanges between the machine and the filter using a SDR (software defined radio) receiver and wired antenna. Then I bought a Chamelon Mini and implemented the 15693 protocol and simulated a EM4237 chip. I bought half a dozen of new filters and copied the content into the flash (Jura E6 remembers the last couple of filters serial numbers). I then sold the still new cartridges for an attractive price to a friend :-)
I used the coil antenna of an old Jura filter (removing it from the filter and also removing the chip) and mounted it at the bottom of the water tank, just facing the Jura reader at the bottom. The Chamelon is fixed on the water tank using 3M double face tape.
Of course it took me a while but it's working well now and it cost we 35c€ to fill a cartridge.
If you leave me a mail I can send you some pictures.
Posted by: Gast_Chrischi January 28, 2020 09:49 pm
| QUOTE (basti43 @ Tuesday, 13 August 2019, 21:16 hrs) |
| I have solved the problem without great technical effort : Existing used filter cartridge cleanly cut open at the top, there is a 30 mm opening, pour out used granulate cleanly wash out, fill in new granulate, I close the hole at the top with a correspondingly large plastic plug, which sits tightly on the middle rod of the filter. Problem solved. Now comes the clou, the connection water tank to the machine must be neutralized. I achieved this by using an aluminium strip with a hole for the water passage. Now the machine no longer displays the filter change automatically, i.e. monitor it manually, but descaling and the cleaning cycle is still displayed. Much joy with the saved filter cartridges. The Knobler on duty |
Could you explain that in more detail, please?
Posted by: Sorin June 28, 2020 08:10 pm
| QUOTE (Windi @ Saturday, 28 October 2017, 17:06 hrs) |
| The Jura company has installed an RFID chip in the Claris smart cartridges so that the machine automatically recognizes a new filter cartridge. According to information from Jura, of course only so that you don't accidentally insert a cartridge that has already been used. In reality, of course, the intention is to prevent refilling and sell your own expensive cartridges. The refilling is possible, if you deactivate the filter recognition on the machine. But then you have to take care of the change intervals yourself because then there is no message from the machine anymore. There must be a possibility to refill these cartridges and sell them to the machine as "new". Now I ask myself the following question. How or where does the machine remember if the filter has been used before? Does it write this on the RFID chip or does it remember it internally? If it writes it on the RFID chip it would be stupid. Then a hack would be quite complex to impossible, because you can lock the RFID chips permanently against changes. But if she remembers it internally I see several possibilities. The memory of the already used cartridges cannot be infinitely large. At some point she will "forget" the oldest cartridge, so you can use it again. I have now tried it with 6 old cartridges. But she still knew them all. So I would like to try the following. Just use a used cartridge from another machine. She can't know them yet. If the machine accepts this cartridge, it's clear that it stores it internally. This cartridge can then be filled. If that works, you can introduce a system of exchanging Claris Smart cartridges. User A sends an empty cartridge to user B and vice versa. When the cartridge is empty again, user A sends it to user C and so on. Now you would first have to find out if the machine accepts other used cartridges at all. If this works, you can think about building an exchange system. Who of you has an old Claris Smart cartridge and would send it to me (against reimbursement of shipping costs) so I can test it. |
I can do that
Posted by: snowball June 30, 2020 07:39 pm
Exchanging the cartridges with different Jura machines does not help. Save your money for sending them back and forth. The consumption is written on the chip and cannot be deleted or reset. And when the filter is used up, the blocks are blocked, which can't be undone.
Posted by: Gast_Francis August 23, 2020 09:54 pm
Snowball is fully right, the memory blocks in the cartridge's chip are "locked" as they are written and can't be reset. So a used cartridge can't be reset or reused on another machine. Actually the E8 machine itself remembers no more than a couple of cartridges.
See my previous posts here: I hacked the machine by simulating the chip in the filter (Cameleon-mini rebooted simulating a EM4237) so once "used" I can reset the memory blocks with the content of a new filter (as the machine remembers a couple of chips you need to alternatively program the simulator with two or more different contents).
I'm doing that for more than two years now, it costs me about 0.35€ to refill the filter.
You can leave me an email if you want more details.
Posted by: antoinev November 19, 2020 02:13 pm
Dear Francis,
Would love to see how you achieved that. I can even offer you compensation if you teach me your knowledge (I am getting crazy with those filters!) 
Please let me know how I can reach you ?
Best
Posted by: antoinev November 19, 2020 02:17 pm
| QUOTE (Gast_Francis @ August 23, 2020 08:54 pm) |
| Snowball is fully right, the memory blocks in the cartridge's chip are "locked" as they are written and can't be reset. So a used cartridge can't be reset or reused on another machine. Actually the E8 machine itself remembers no more than a couple of cartridges. See my previous posts here: I hacked the machine by simulating the chip in the filter (Cameleon-mini rebooted simulating a EM4237) so once "used" I can reset the memory blocks with the content of a new filter (as the machine remembers a couple of chips you need to alternatively program the simulator with two or more different contents). I'm doing that for more than two years now, it costs me about 0.35€ to refill the filter. You can leave me an email if you want more details. |
You can contact me on jeromcoulet [at] gmail [dot] com
Posted by: Gast_Heiner December 29, 2020 06:09 pm
| QUOTE (Guest @ Monday, January 15, 2018, 1:21 pm) |
| Hello, I tried a bit around and was able to permanently interrupt the radio between filter and machine - a small plate of aluminum foil in the right place from the outside attached and already the communication was interrupted - bingo! Now I can fill the original cartridges again and insert without the machine grumbles. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately for us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year. With such hard water the coffee taste remains without filtering fully on the distance because flavours and fine acid are neutralized and I would have to adjust 2 beans more around at all still a bischen coffee taste to get. As I said, the use of special filter granules serves me exclusively to filter unwanted flavors in hard water, nevertheless, properly decalcified. After reading out the water, but at the latest after 6 weeks, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in. Greetings Mike |
Hi
,where did you put the aluminium foil?
Thanks for an answer.
ServusHeiner
Posted by: max.meier21@web.de December 29, 2020 06:18 pm
| QUOTE (Guest @ Monday, January 15, 2018, 12:21 PM) |
| Hello, I tried a bit around and was able to permanently interrupt the radio between filter and machine - a small plate of aluminum foil in the right place from the outside attached and already the communication was interrupted - bingo! Now I can fill the original cartridges again and insert without the machine grumbles. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately for us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year. With such hard water the coffee taste remains without filtering fully on the distance because flavours and fine acid are neutralized and I would have to adjust 2 beans more around at all still a bischen coffee taste to get. As I said, the use of special filter granules serves me exclusively to filter unwanted flavors in hard water, nevertheless, properly decalcified. After reading out the water, but at the latest after 6 weeks, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in. Greeting Mike |
Hi Mike
,could you show me where you put the aluminium foil. Thank you. Servus Max
Posted by: Gast_Patrick January 12, 2021 04:30 pm
| QUOTE (Guest_Francis @ Sunday, January 19, 2020, 11:36 PM) |
| Hi Marco , I actually hacked it. Actually I sniffed the exchanges between the machine and the filter using an SDR (software defined radio) receiver and a wired antenna. Then I bought a Chamelon Mini and implemented the 15693 protocol and simulated an EM4237 chip. I bought half a dozen new filters and copied the contents into the flash (Jura E6 remembers the last serial numbers of the filters). I then sold the still new cartridges to a friend at an attractive price</br> :-)I used the coil antenna from an old Jura filter (removed it from the filter and also removed the chip) and mounted it at the bottom of the water tank, just facing the Jura reader below. The chamelon is attached to the water tank with 3M double stick tape</br></br>. Of course it took a while, but now it works fine and it cost us 35c€ to fill</br></br> a cartridge</br></br >. If you leave me a mail I can send you some</br></br> pics</br></br >. |
Hello Francis,
Would you post your read out logs? I just ordered a ChameleonMini. However, I have no way to read the data from my cartridges to load into the Chameleon.
Thanks already for your answer.
Many greetingsPatrick
Posted by: PeterS May 20, 2021 12:42 pm
| QUOTE (Guest @ Monday, January 15, 2018, 1:21 pm) |
| Hello, I tried a bit around and was able to permanently interrupt the radio between filter and machine - a small plate of aluminum foil in the right place from the outside attached and already the communication was interrupted - bingo! Now I can fill the original cartridges again and insert without the machine grumbles. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately for us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year. With such hard water the coffee taste remains without filtering fully on the distance because flavours and fine acid are neutralized and I would have to adjust 2 beans more around at all still a bischen coffee taste to get. As I said, the use of special filter granules serves me exclusively to filter unwanted flavors in hard water, nevertheless, properly decalcified. After reading out the water, but at the latest after 6 weeks, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in. Greetings Mike |
The aluminium disc on the used filter drain works, the machine "thinks" there is no filter inserted.
The problem is that the refilled cartridges do not work properly: When the water tank is half full, the machine runs dry because it stops drawing water for some unknown reason. Then it sinks each time a portion of fresh coffee in the residual tank.
Posted by: LeGa December 26, 2021 12:46 pm
The plug on the self-filling filter must be tight!
Posted by: Gast_Altmeister January 14, 2022 10:05 am
| QUOTE (Guest @ Monday, 15 January 2018, 13:21) |
| Hello, I tried a bit around and was able to permanently interrupt the radio between filter and machine - a small plate of aluminum foil in the right place from the outside attached and already the communication was interrupted - bingo! Now I can fill the original cartridges again and insert without the machine grumbles. 16 degrees dH (unfortunately for us) are set and the Jura E8 reports 2-3 times a year. With such hard water without filtration, the coffee taste is fully on the line because flavors and fine acidity are neutralized and I would have to set 2 more beans to get even a little coffee flavor. As I said, the use of special filter granules serves me exclusively to filter undesirable flavors in the hard water, nevertheless, properly decalcified. After reading out the references, but at the latest after 6 weeks, a newly prepared, cleaned and refilled original cartridge comes in. Greetings Mike |
Exactly so I have also done Mike, cut an old milk carton, cut out hole, put on the bottom where the filter cartridge is inserted so that the chip is deactivated.The granules to refill the cartridges are available with a funnel to buy.Ten hole at the top laterally drill into the filter, refill cartridge the silicone plug is included in the set of granules.Replace filter every 1.5-2 months and it works.
Unfortunately, my wife has reservations and continues to buy cartridges.
Greetings Gerhard
Posted by: zz August 11, 2022 07:54 am
any newer development in cloning claris smart filter?
Posted by: zz1 August 11, 2022 07:55 am
if not, is it possible to get detailed instruction from original person who used chameleon mini to copy then simulate few new claris smart filters to make the jura start making the chameleon clone with "used water" blocks?
Posted by: Artur September 06, 2022 09:03 pm
| QUOTE (Gast_Francis @ January 19, 2020 10:36 pm) |
| Hi Marco, indeed I hacked it. Actually I sniffed the exchanges between the machine and the filter using a SDR (software defined radio) receiver and wired antenna. Then I bought a Chamelon Mini and implemented the 15693 protocol and simulated a EM4237 chip. I bought half a dozen of new filters and copied the content into the flash (Jura E6 remembers the last couple of filters serial numbers). I then sold the still new cartridges for an attractive price to a friend :-) I used the coil antenna of an old Jura filter (removing it from the filter and also removing the chip) and mounted it at the bottom of the water tank, just facing the Jura reader at the bottom. The Chamelon is fixed on the water tank using 3M double face tape. Of course it took me a while but it's working well now and it cost we 35c€ to fill a cartridge. If you leave me a mail I can send you some pictures. |
Hello Francis,
I would like to see how you achieved it. I can even offer you a compensation.
Let me know on contact, how can I contact you?
Regards
Arthur
Posted by: Gast_Andreas October 23, 2022 09:59 pm
| QUOTE (snowball @ Saturday, October 28, 2017, 11:21 PM) |
| You can forget about replacing the cartridges. Used filter cartridges cannot be used in any other machine. I had already dealt with this, with the result that the cartridges can no longer be reused. The chips in the cartridges are written by the machine. Each chip a unique ID that the Jura machine can remember. When the cartridge is used up, the cartridge is locked in the corresponding blocks. Each ml of water withdrawal is stored on the chip. In addition, the switch-on cycles (if water was also drawn) are written to the chip. The chips must also be specially addressed to be able to store data on them. Reading them, on the other hand, is easy. An Android phone with the TagInfo app from NXP and you can read the chip. Blocks 0 to 3 contain the unique ID. Block 8 is where the power cycles are stored. Block 10 to 1B is used for the flow rate. Maybe more (machine number). Block 1C to 1F I could change with a suitable RFID writer as I wanted, but the ones before that I could not! The following RFID reader/writer is installed in the machines: "https://fccid.io/2ADLV60900138/User-Manual/UserManual-pdf-2550467.pdf" I've given up on the chip story. Possibilities that would be: get suitable blanks and replace the old ones. But again, I would think that they would need to be prepared appropriately. In the new condition the chip is already described. In addition, the procurement should not be quite cheap. Thus no option mMn. Another possibility would be to record and decode the communication between the Jura controller and the RFID reader/writer. Here, a proprietary protocol like the serial Jura connector, which has already been decoded, could also be used. Perhaps also the same? I will rely on an external solution here, without these RFID chips, but with elaborate additional hardware. |
Hello folks. It's pretty simple. Remove RFID chip. The Jura then starts as if har no filter is inserted.
Posted by: JoJa January 24, 2023 12:25 pm
| QUOTE (Windi @ Saturday, 28 October 2017, 17:06 h) |
| The company Jura has yes built into the Claris Smart cartridges an RFID chip, so that the machine automatically recognizes a new filter cartridge. According to information from Jura, of course, only so that you do not accidentally use an already used cartridge. In reality, of course, you want to prevent refilling and sell their own expensive cartridges. The refilling goes yes, if you deactivate the filter detection on the machine. However, you then have to take care of the change intervals yourself because there is no longer a message from the machine. There must be a way to refill these cartridges and "sell" them to the machine as new. Now I have the following question. How or where does the machine remember whether the filter has already been used? Does it write this on the RFID chip or does it remember it internally? If it writes this on the RFID chip, it would be stupid. Then a hack would be quite complex or even impossible, since the RFID chips can be permanently locked against changes. But if it remembers it internally, I see several possibilities here. The memory of the already used cartridges can't be very large. At some point, it will "forget" the oldest cartridge, so that it can be used again. I have now tried it with 6 old cartridges. But it still knows all of them. That's why I would like to try the following. Simply insert a used cartridge from another machine. It can't know it yet. If the machine accepts this cartridge, it is clear that it stores this internally. You can then fill this cartridge. If this works, you can introduce an exchange system for Claris Smart cartridges. User A sends an empty cartridge to user B and vice versa. If the cartridge is then empty again, user A sends it to user C, etc. Now you first have to find out whether the machine accepts other used cartridges. If that works out, we can think about setting up an exchange system. Who of you has an old Claris Smart cartridge and would send it to me (against reimbursement of shipping costs) so that I can test it. |
That Jura has been installing a chip for some time is an unacceptable money machine for the company. I have had Jura machines for 25 years, now the third. The previous ones each more than 10 years. These also had filters, but without a chip. I have always used these 2 to 3 times with dry out, counter rinse. I never had any problems. Unfortunately, this is no longer possible with the new filters with chip. I currently have an E9.
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