Cartridge vs. decalcifying - important information at a glance

Hello first of all!

>I have already read a lot about descaling and water filters and had to wonder again and again how different the statements and the domestic practices can be. Especially in Jura the spirits seem to divorce.

I work for a large electrical goods chain (without naming names
Euch it is optional with the purchase of a Jura machine whether he uses the supplied water filter or relies on regular descaling.

If you decide to operate WITHOUT a water filter, the following points must be observed:

>The unit is factory set for operation WITHOUT a filter.

The degree of hardness must (!) be determined and adjusted correctly

The device signals the time of descaling at the necessary (!) point in time, depending on the user's behaviour (earlier descaling is necessary with frequent use of steam, as a higher descaling residue is inevitable during steam generation).

Shows the device "descaling" on it is important to carry out the procedure (45 - 50 minutes) as soon as possible.

The heating element has only a very small diameter, this until get-no to exhaust and wait until one has desire or time to descaling is not a good thought, because the descaler will not then be able to solve all calcifications. As a result, the heating element gradually "grows" because after each decalcification there is always a little more residual lime left and at some point it is completely DICHT! And that is what we need to avoid with immediate, better immediate decalcification.

Original decalcifier and the specified amount of water result in a mixture that is specially adapted to the machines and achieve an optimum result if decalcification is carried out at the specified time!

Imagine your kettle looking like that after 1 year of daily use without decalcifying. I think it's clear to everyone that 2 - 4 decalcifications a year are NOT enough. Now imagine that the water-bearing part of the heating element has a diameter of approx. 3-4 mm. Here it quickly becomes clear that it is wiser to rely on the technology of the professionals and to do what the programming of the machine dictates.

Correct use of the Claris water filter cartridge:

>The machine is factory set for operation WITHOUT water filter

>The use of the water filter must be set in the menu of the machine

>The use of the Claris filter cartridge is recommended from a hardness range above 10° dH

>The maximum service life is 50 liters or (!) 2 months or (!) 125 minutes steam supply.

The machine determines the correct time for the filter change taking into account the coffee purchases (in litres) and the steam usage (in minutes).

If the machine does not indicate a change within 2 months, you must do this yourself and inform the machine via the menu that the filter has been changed.

The change after 2 months is for hygienic reasons.

If the change of the Claris filter cartridge is indicated, it is SATISFIED and has NO reserves for further use. It is advisable to have a replacement filter at home to be able to carry out the change immediately.

If the filter is not changed immediately or as promptly as possible, but if the filter is not changed further, coffee or worse, steam is added, calcification sets in. This must be avoided by a quick change.

General:

If the machine is used with a water filter, then descaling is not necessary if the machine is informed of the use of a water filter and this is changed at the specified time.

If the machine indicates descaling despite the use of a water filter, the machine is not set for operation with a water filter. The water filter achieves a water softening up to approx. 7°dH.

This residual lime binds flavourings and contributes to the characteristic taste formation of the coffee.

The low limescale residue (hardly more than a dusty limescale film) is flushed out when the Claris filter cartridge is replaced, thus ensuring perfect operation.

The menu item "Descaling" deliberately disappears from the menu when the use of a water filter is set.

The use of original descaler is advisable in so far as it results from the tablets and the water an ideal mixture which ensures an optimal result when descaling at the specified (!) time.

[/B]A WRONG advice:[/B] To still descale, simply switch off the filter use and then start the descaling program. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO If a filter cartridge is used to decalcify, the machine will attack materials, gaskets and plastics, because there is not enough lime in the machine for the decalcifier to act. The little lime is flushed out with the change of the Claris filter cartridge.



>At the moment I can't remember any more, if you have any questions you are very welcome to ask them here.

Best regards thoni

QUOTE (ThoNi81 @ Thursday, 13 May 2010, 12:45 pm)

General: >If the machine is used with a water filter, then decalcification is not necessary if the machine is informed of the use of a water filter and this is changed at the specified time.

Hello Thoni,

and exactly this statement is false!

We (respectively my wife) have been repairing commercially law and identical machines for several years. In spite of (correct) using the Claris, there is far more than a thin film of lime in the heating element! I don't know how many heaters we have already replaced, but when a machine with a filter arrives in the tank, we are prepared in at least 50% of cases to replace the heater(s) due to pitting by lime. By the way, the cartridge only softens up to 8° dH, as the Hansawerke in Stuttgart will confirm (patent holder), but one degree does not make the cabbage fat anymore

I fully support the answer.

see also daily open Jura devices and recommend every customer despite filters to decalcify.

Exactly by as sellers as yours testify, people will end up getting problems with your device.

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Bei allen Fragen zu Saeco und Jura stehe ich euch per PN bereit.
Auch wenn Ihr etwas für die Geräte benötigt =)

I rely in my statement on information from Jura and their training staff.

The trainer says that the calcification of the machines is due to the fact that the customer does not change the filter immediately, but waits a few days and continues to drink coffee between times.

It goes without saying that this is not ideal because the filter has already reached its maximum filter performance and filtering is no longer carried out.

I do not know how far you can read out the devices. According to the error logs of the factory customer service in Switzerland, such a calcification always resulted in an over-reference beyond the indicated change time, according to the trainer.

I myself would not tell my customers half-truths if I did not have the information from a reliable source.

MfG Thoni

QUOTE (ThoNi81 @ Thursday, May 13, 2010)May 2010, 15:55 hrs)

I base my statement on information from Jura and its training staff.

So no real knowledge, but wishful thinking or myth. Rather believe the people who deal daily with the damage caused by the exclusive use of filters.

Hello Thoni,
What you are spreading here is complete nonsense. With a (residual) hardness of approx. 7-8° dH, the machine (e.g. my Jura S9) is whitewashed at the latest after 2 1/2 years in such a way that the message "Fill system" makes a visit to the service necessary (if you cannot fix it yourself). The indication in the BDAs that descaling is no longer necessary when using a Claris filter exclusively promotes the sales of the service partners.

Therefore: do not forget descaling even when using filters!

Greß
Helmut

I know what you're saying here, I've heard it often enough at the trainings, but how often is practice and theory a difference.

That's always the point on the trainings where they discuss and then at some point it's called, we'll do something else now

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Bei allen Fragen zu Saeco und Jura stehe ich euch per PN bereit.
Auch wenn Ihr etwas für die Geräte benötigt =)

Thanks for your controversial answers, I had almost expected it

Nothing is carved in stone, so I'll take this information and confront my law sales force with these truths. I'm curious how he reacts to it

On the last training, I was also a bit sceptical. However, the assembled Jura staff ( 3 in number ) did not give me the impression as if they were telling us fairy tales at this point.

So what.... so every 4-5 months a profilactic decalcification and everything is good.

you will probably hear exactly the same thing when you talk to him about it as during the training.
That's simply Jura philosophy.
On the one hand you're right, since Jura comes from Switzerland, which has different water there than we do, only the filter is sufficient.
For the use in Germany however it is not enough, except in isolated areas.

As it is not so that the Jura employees tell stupid, always arrives at the use region or country

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Bei allen Fragen zu Saeco und Jura stehe ich euch per PN bereit.
Auch wenn Ihr etwas für die Geräte benötigt =)

I own a Nivona. Here, too, the machine can be set to filter operation. However, it is already pointed out in the instructions that descaling is still necessary 2x a year. A telephone call with the service even brought the hint that 4x is better - despite filters. The newest devices should even remind the owner.

We have here very soft water (5° DH). The machine is set to this setting and is operated without filter. Nevertheless, she reports about every 3 months.

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Kaffevollautomaten sind die Tamgotchis der Gegenwart

But now I still don't know how I can decalcify the machine if I have used the Claris water cartridge so far!!!!

Is it simply possible to change it and wait until it indicates decalcify the machine??

I have also followed the Jura instructions until the company that has my machine repaired once a year pointed out to me that despite Claris water cartridge decalcified once a year!

The descaling program can also be started manually.

... and everything is loud and clear in the BDA!
(a hint might help, which device it is. Or did I miss something?)

I have a Jura S9 coffee machine and according to the mechanic who repairs my machine annually, I am supposed to scale it at least once a year despite Clari's water cartridge.

A salesman for such machines told me that it is not possible as long as the machine is running in "water cartridge" mode.

This would mean that I would have to set the machine to normal operation without Claris water cartridge, but still have the water cartridge inside and at some point the decalcification process will be displayed.
But I find it very awkward!!!&#br>>br>>I also have to say that we have a lot of lime-containing water.

Can anyone tell me how I can start the decalcification process with the Jura decalcifying tablets despite Claris' water cartridge???

I want to thank you in advance for your help

Cartridge out, machine on "Filter no" change, decalcification program manually start and finish, machine on "Filter yes", cartridge in, resubmission in one year.

or

Cartridge out and dispose, machine on "Filter no" change, water hardness on correct level set (4?), wait for decalcification message, decalcify, save money for cartridges.