Used Jura F50 or new DeLonghi ESAM3000

So far I have a 15 year old Jura Impressa E 50 at home, which should have more than 50000 references behind it. Elsewhere in this Forum I came to the conclusion that an exchange is indicated.

Now I'm unsure which machine it should be next or how much money I would have to take into my hands.

So far I have been thinking about the following candidates:

• DeLonghi ESAM3000 (new)
• Jura Impressa F 50 (used) [tip from numberonedefender]

For the first one, that you can get a new machine for a reasonable price (and I like that you can take out the brewing group), for the second one (probably?) the higher quality and that I don't move far from my old machine with the maintenance and repair, I suppose.

However, revised F 50, where you don't know if they have already 11 years, cost 300 €. Used from Privat you don't know at all where you are and new the F 50 costs about 680 €.

As far as the coffee that the machines make is concerned, of course I don't know much. I know a more expensive DeLonghi, which makes quite acceptable coffee but no good espresso and I am not so enthusiastic about the coffee now - the E 50 was better in her old days. (Well, of course, that also depends on the bean, but that's not the case now.)

Therefore I'd like to ask you for tips on buying.

My requirement profile (wish list) :

• The machine shouldn't be so big - Not bigger than the E50, rather smaller.
• Relations: 4 long coffees a day, on weekends also times clearly more
• I would like to have good long coffee, but also good espresso
• Primary I would like to use whole beans. Powder compartment is not necessary.
• No milk foaming functions etc. necessary - I really never use it.
• The machine should have its own counters for cleaning program and maintenance program. (not like the old Spidem at work)
• Price: Actually I don't want to spend as much as a new F50 costs. 400 and below would be nicer.
>li>Thermoblock made of stainless steel (Not another aluminium heating block)
• Good to maintain - e.g. removable brewing group
• Good long-term durability or reparability

Edit: Three more points added to the list of requirements.

Addendum:
Lone, if I look at Jura, I find the C60, which was also somehow test winner - cheaper than the F 50 and apparently better than the ESAM3000. But also the ENA Micro would meet my profile, I think. (The ENA 9 was also the test winner. How much does the ENA Micro have in common with that?) After the test I go directly to the DeLonghi Magnifica S ECAM 22.110.B, which should be more affordable with 440 € but also quite good.

But in all the tests the long-term experience is not highlighted, nor is the reparability.

And I have another question: Did they use a stainless steel thermo block or did they end up with an aluminium heating cartridge again?

I have desorbed... there are a lot of machines.

I had recommended the F50 to you as a handicraft device, you can already get it for a Hunni and then repair it cheaply, you can do that from your E50.

The Ena Micro makes very tasty coffee (already has the Aroma Plus grinder), I had the Micro1 once as a test and the handling of the machine has annoyed me endlessly.
The C-Series is also highly recommended, something "slobberier" than the F-Series...

DeLonghi I personally don't like (I don't like the coffee taste, nor the workmanship, nor the operating noises), although I had none of the newer models yet. In terms of price/performance DeLonghi is certainly okay, in terms of longevity rather not (my opinion).

There are actually only stainless steel heaters in current machines.

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Grüße, Manuel

Jura ENA Micro 9 (Küche)
Jura xF50 (Büro)
wechselnde Besetzung in der Werkstatt...
P.S.: Support gibt's im Forum, nicht per PN o.ä.

(@numberonedefender: I found the thematic restart in the buying advice here more meaningful. Hope that doesn't annoy )

QUOTE (numberonedefender @ Wednesday, 08.October 2014, 17:19 o'clock)

I had recommended the F50 to you as a craft device, you can get it for a Hunni and then repair it cheaply, you can do that from your E50.

How long has the F50 been around? Or asked the other way around: Is there a danger that I might buy a device on Ebay, for example, that has already 10 years on its back or has over 50000 references through? Most of the offers there were rather opaque for me.

QUOTE (numberonedefender @ Wednesday, 08. October 2014).October 2014, 17:19 pm)

The Ena Micro makes very tasty coffee (already has the Aroma Plus grinder), I had the Micro1 for a test and the handling of the machine was annoying me endlessly.

The F50 has also been around for 10 years, the oldest generation can be recognised by the completely black lid, from 2006 the lid has a stainless steel insert plate (as a "cup heater"), from 2011 there was a "relaunch", which can be recognised by the 4 black cover buttons (instead of 2 silver ones), which are identical in construction to the current "Classic".
On ebay, of course, a lot of scrap is traded, too, last I rather bought via the classifieds and communicated with the sellers previously corresponded.

>The "normal" ENAs I have except for the ENA7 all through, currently use an ENA5, from the new Micro I know as said only the Micro1. Most of the new Juras have the "Aroma Plus" grinder, which produces quite homogeneous coffee powder in a much shorter grinding time; I found the coffee taste from the Micro1 fantastic, but the operation via the very reduced panel without a sensible display was personally awkward for me, and the missing steam pipe disturbed me. I haven't tried the other micro with OneTouch milk froth tones myself yet. The Micro is definitely more difficult to maintain than the old Juras, because it's an adventure to get the case open at all...

Why Jura sticks to the concept with the permanently installed BG, I can't tell you; for many that's an exclusion criterion, but even if the revision every few years is annoying, the maintenance costs of a Jura are very manageable in my opinion, because the somewhat newer devices have the expensive parts such as heaters, etc.. I personally wouldn't buy a KVA from Philips-Saeco, but I never liked Saeco either...

Nivona is okay, comes like Jura, Melitta and the well-tried Bosch and Siemens KVA from the Eugster factory, is very fiddly to repair (like at BSH also often times problems with the microswitches, the actuator or the drainage valve, which is simply corrosive to change...).

--------------------
Grüße, Manuel

Jura ENA Micro 9 (Küche)
Jura xF50 (Büro)
wechselnde Besetzung in der Werkstatt...
P.S.: Support gibt's im Forum, nicht per PN o.ä.

The "normal" ENAs I have all but the ENA7 through, currently use an ENA5, from the new Micro I know as said only the Micro1. Most of the new Juras have the "Aroma Plus" grinder, which produces quite homogeneous coffee powder in a much shorter grinding time; I found the coffee taste from the Micro1 fantastic, but the operation via the very reduced panel without a sensible display was personally awkward for me, and the missing steam pipe disturbed me. I haven't tried the other micro with OneTouch milk froth tones myself yet. The Micro is definitely more difficult to maintain than the old Juras, because it's an adventure to get the case open at all...

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_Alice_

Mhh Read some of these and that and someone who prefers to write only one sentence and copy the rest.
So if you write that a selection criterion is a removable brew group then there is no Jura on the whole line. For a Delonghi or a Saeco you should go and get some taste samples.
The DLH are cast with a stainless steel tube, next to which is the heating cartridge.
The old heaters were completely made of die-cast aluminium, which is why the lime fraas and oxidation had spread.
But I noticed while reading that you go out to a law.
So once a year for maintenance and then it should be good.
Lay there rather with the KVA some more bills on it and get you a new one.
Or one from the small indicator of the trader with warranty.

MfG Chris

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Alles ist Wiederverwertbar, sogar diese Buchstaben.
Keine Anfragen oder Hilfe, über E-Mail.

This forum is increasingly getting on my nerves

>There is spammed, what the stuff holds, lyrics wildly copied out, again and again ancient, loosened Threads by mental thin shit again activated, in the meantime gave's yes times again some moderation, but that seems to be also longer time again history

Mit sorry's always sorry for newcomers who register properly and seek appropriate help.
With all the nonsense that goes on here, you as "old-established" just lose the desire

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Grüße, Manuel

Jura ENA Micro 9 (Küche)
Jura xF50 (Büro)
wechselnde Besetzung in der Werkstatt...
P.S.: Support gibt's im Forum, nicht per PN o.ä.

There's nothing to add, although I'm not so "old-established" yet.

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Gruß Rudi

@ Rudi: Thanks for the encouragement. I ask myself more and more often why we keep this place running at all... Against my (occupational) helper syndrome I apparently just can't get

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Grüße, Manuel

Jura ENA Micro 9 (Küche)
Jura xF50 (Büro)
wechselnde Besetzung in der Werkstatt...
P.S.: Support gibt's im Forum, nicht per PN o.ä.